Does(n't) science meet the law? And does law meet the scientists?!

A recent article in the UKCLE's hard-copy magazine - Directions (McCartney & Cassella, pg 8-9 Autumn 2008 edition) - discusses the absence of forensic modules on the LLB in England and Wales.

Of all the 10 LLB providers in Scotland,the majority (7) offer an elective forensic module of some description:
Aberdeen - Advanced Evidence (which includes expert witness and probability evidence)
Abertay - Scientific Detectives (two modules available) (catalogue not available online)
Dundee - Forensic Medicine
Edinburgh - Medical Jurisprudence
Glasgow - Forensic Medicine
Glasgow Caledonian - Evidence and Forensic Identification (two modules available)
Strathclyde - Forensic Medicine & Science (two modules available)

Beyond the issue of whether LLB students can opt for a forensic module, Napier offers a Law for Forensic Scientists module and the Robert Gordon University offers a named BSc Forensic Science with Law that combats the opposite issue - do forensic scientists get enough training in legal issues?

So, it seems that forensic issues are more mainstream in the Scottish LLB curriculum, although not as a core subject, and students are required to opt for these modules as an elective.  Whether they have a 'scientific background' in terms of secondary schooling, I couldn't comment.  But, Scottish students arrive at university with around 5 to 7 Highers taken over two years- therefore there is a greater possibility of having some scientific knowledge, albeit slightly lower than A level standard.

As a very rough and ready analysis, I had a quick count up of our own first year intake (47) for Glasgow Caledonian and found that students had the following Highers:

Biology	28%
Chemistry	32%
Physics	23%
Maths	53%

I've included Maths as I'd like to suggest that a knowledge of maths and stats is equally important for a law student when taking a forensic module to appreciate the problems and issues around probability and likelihood ratios that had confounded the courts in the 1990s and probably still confounds the jury today.

Carole McCartney at Leeds looked at unconditional offers (214) and found approx 18% have an A level in a science (such as biology, chemistry, physics). With Scottish students having a larger number of subjects they can take, this will clearly be higher, and of course, I've included maths too.

All 4 Sciences	4%
At least 3 Sciences	19%
At least 2 Sciences	47%
At least 1 Sciences	72%
No Sciences	28%

But does this make their grades any better? I'll tell you in four years! Will this make them better lawyers?  Who knows!

Comments

[Michael]

Hi Carole, thanks for the comments - I understand that Aberdeen has a more appropriate module open to their LLB students, but that comment was from a recent graduate and I was unable to find what I thought I was looking for on their website... will have to enquire with the next staff member I see!
Will hopefully be able to chat about this in more detail at LILAC - especially since I saw John Casella on TV (Countryfile) the other week talking about forensic issues and dead pigs!

[Carole McCartney]

This is very interesting - and I've always thought that the Scottish did cover forensic science far more so than England/ Wales. However - can I just say that having looked, I wouldn't include Edinburgh's 'Medical Jurisprudence', nor Aberdeen's 'Advanced Evidence' as covering 'forensic science'. There are lots of modules around that cover experts/ medical law issues, but what we're trying to get at with our project is specifically the lack of insight into the role of/ work of forensic science in the justice system. These modules wouldn't cover this from the looks of it. So I would make it 5 of your 10 providers - still better than those LLB providers south of the border - but still room for improvement! Also - I think the comparison with teaching law to forensic students could also go a lot further in that most, if not all forensic UG programmes MUST include some 'law/ legal skills' module in order to get accredited - so as legal educators, we're doing a lot better teaching forensic science students law, than we are teaching law students forensic science (though again I believe there is room for improvement there too).

It's great to start this debate and I'm delighted that Michael has added to this with the Scottish outlook.